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Cycles and Yafaray

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Re: Cycles and Yafaray

Post Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:13 am

Arquitecto wrote:I add: GPU is now very fashion but not for production on archviz industry imho.
Yafary has it's place since it's much more adaptable to the industry.


I disagree. I've been using Octane since early beta, tho I'm not in the archviz scene. It produces some kickass realistic renders and runs purely on GPU. The usage of Octane seems to be predominantly in the archviz industry. GPU rendering is not a fashion, because with CUDA architecture development more and more algorithms can and will be implemented on the GPU. I'm ceirtanly never going back to snail paced CPU rendering :)

Yafaray produces some great indoor results with PM, but scene prototyping & workflow in general is so damn slow compared to Cycles or Octane... And as I pointed out, artist time is much more expensive than render time.

Imo Yafaray should go niche and focus (promo & development) on the thing that it does best - indoor archviz stills with PM
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Re: Cycles and Yafaray

Post Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:52 pm

I think YafaRay would be able to keep up with more interactive capabilities if Cycles shared its scene export system. We can not implement an interactive render loop using a single threaded interpreted language as python to export scene data. Here in test phase with low settings scenes take more to export than to render. This is particularly true in big scenes. This is also being reported by Luxrender developers.
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Re: Cycles and Yafaray

Post Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:48 pm

_Mo_ wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:I add: GPU is now very fashion but not for production on archviz industry imho.
Yafary has it's place since it's much more adaptable to the industry.


I disagree. I've been using Octane since early beta, tho I'm not in the archviz scene. It produces some kickass realistic renders and runs purely on GPU. The usage of Octane seems to be predominantly in the archviz industry. GPU rendering is not a fashion, because with CUDA architecture development more and more algorithms can and will be implemented on the GPU. I'm ceirtanly never going back to snail paced CPU rendering :)

Yafaray produces some great indoor results with PM, but scene prototyping & workflow in general is so damn slow compared to Cycles or Octane... And as I pointed out, artist time is much more expensive than render time.

Imo Yafaray should go niche and focus (promo & development) on the thing that it does best - indoor archviz stills with PM


I agree with you but you should also add the vram problem of these graphic cards.
To have more than 1536MB your workstation becomes really expensive...
If you don't need more than that your assumptions are correct.
Major archviz providers kept cpu and are using it right now exactly because of this.

Yafaray dificulty with ram when procesing images is imho putting the project in a dificult position since you can't take advantage of the gpu limitations of these render engines...

And look at the industry standard vray: gpu is making it's path but cpu is their main asset at the moment.
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Re: Cycles and Yafaray

Post Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:45 am

Samo wrote:I think YafaRay would be able to keep up with more interactive capabilities if Cycles shared its scene export system. We can not implement an interactive render loop using a single threaded interpreted language as python to export scene data.


A tightly integrated Yafaray would certainly speed up things, but that would require some good amount of C/C++ work to make it happen. Maybe Yafaray could even share some Cycles code and do at least scene prototyping (shading & lightning previews, etc) on th GPU? But I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "if Cycles shared its scene export system". Isnt Cycles completely open-sourced?

@Arquitecto, VRAM can be an issue on lower end cards, yes. But this is mostly the case if you have lots of hi-res textures (normalmaps etc). Geometry doesn't take much and with instancing it can be drastically lowered. The next big thing that eats up a lot of VRAM is frame buffer, where if you are doing some huge renders (20+ megapixel) it will take a lot of memory.

In my experience if you are the optimizing type (using grayscale bump instead of RGB normalmaps, using procedural shaders instead of textures, creating LOD objects / materials, etc...) you will be just fine even with cards with 2GB of VRAM. But definitely don't invest in cards with lower than that.
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Re: Cycles and Yafaray

Post Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:11 pm

_Mo_ wrote:
Samo wrote:A tightly integrated Yafaray would certainly speed up things, but that would require some good amount of C/C++ work to make it happen. Maybe Yafaray could even share some Cycles code and do at least scene prototyping (shading & lightning previews, etc) on th GPU? But I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "if Cycles shared its scene export system". Isnt Cycles completely open-sourced?


Sharing means everyone can use. Suppose we could use work done on Cycles export but at the end we would have to compile our Blender version to use it, this is something we would like to avoid. Everyone can use means all render engines and Cycles, so Cycles developers would asist to maintain it. We are never going to beat Cycles in parallelisation unless there is an industry hardware change, but YafaRay shows it can keep up with quality and I feel we could achieve some interaction too because I agree with you is a very important factor.

I don't know how things are going to end because guys at the Blender Foundation are up to other things now. But I think at the end we are going to solve it. GPU in YafaRay is very far away yet IMO, that's hugue work.
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