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Architecture and Yafaray

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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:20 am

Very uselful thread.
why in the earth should they change to opensource software and spend lot of time learning about Linux, Blender, Yafaray and GIMP?

I actually agree with condar on this but I must say you do not need to change the whole pipeline if exporter for other softwares than blender would exists. That case you only change one software and companies could do it if there are advantages.

My question at this point is, choice between V-Ray and YafaRay is only a question of skills or YafaRay lacks more flexibility? What do you think about its usage against V-Ray?
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:39 am

@Subcomandante: I vote for Yafaray....Vray can be better, but I dont wanna be like everyone, I vote for harder way...only one system are missing me in Yafaray suite......IRRADIANCE CACHE...faster render, after this is no reason to buy Vray...for me

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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:26 pm

subcomandante wrote:My question at this point is, choice between V-Ray and YafaRay is only a question of skills or YafaRay lacks more flexibility? What do you think about its usage against V-Ray?

I did some small comparative tests when I was using V-Ray, and the results were similar, though I only rendered Cornell Boxes. V-Ray was faster and more versatile, Yafaray, I think, easier to set up for new users. The quality of Yafaray's output was a very pleasant surprise - a sentiment I read echoed again and again in the forum.

I chose to use mainly Yafaray because I started rendering about the time it was still preparing for release. I saw it as an opportunity to grow my skills with it as it was developed.
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:54 pm

and one idea for more....Blender is without Yafaray absolutely not usable in this time to architecture visualisation...ok, you say Luxrender...and I say - Have you your own renderfarm? ...or XY computing cores in network..?..Lux is really slow...we know why, but this is no solution for daily work in studio...
Sunflow is slow to...why..?.. I dont know...We , like a architects, can say only one : Thank you god for Yafaray.../I am atheist, hehe

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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:16 pm

subcomandante wrote:My question at this point is, choice between V-Ray and YafaRay is only a question of skills or YafaRay lacks more flexibility? What do you think about its usage against V-Ray?

It's also a question of trust. Yafaray has a consistent developer team, while, for example, the V-Ray/Blender script is maintained by one guy. We can be sure that Yafaray will stay afloat even if some devs decide to leave, so as of now it's more trustworthy. Ofcourse things will probably change with the new Blender release as other renderers will get more support (probably also from commercial projects, which will guarantee the continuity), but still, Yafaray is a name that has a strong connection with Blender - more than other free renderers.

Rather than big features I more often miss small things, like support for multiple UV coord sets or stenciling for all mappable parameters, for example... :wink:
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:36 pm

_Mo_ wrote:It's also a question of trust. Yafaray has a consistent developer team, while, for example, the V-Ray/Blender script is maintained by one guy. We can be sure that Yafaray will stay afloat even if some devs decide to leave, so as of now it's more trustworthy.


I know what you mean, but I think that is a little bit unfair. Andreymi has stated explicitly more than once that he is comitted to maintaining the Blender exporter. I agree if anything should happen to him - too much work e.g. - there may be problems, but I trust him........
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:54 pm

subcomandante wrote:My question at this point is, choice between V-Ray and YafaRay is only a question of skills or YafaRay lacks more flexibility? What do you think about its usage against V-Ray?


Tell me, after you saw this: http://www.vray.com/vray_for_3ds_max/gallery/third_seventh.shtml
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:59 pm

stoneage wrote:I know what you mean, but I think that is a little bit unfair. Andreymi has stated explicitly more than once that he is comitted to maintaining the Blender exporter.


I wasn't unfair to Andrey (or implying anything), I just stated a fact. Yafaray has more developers and in this regard is more "secure" if someone decides to leave the project. I don't doubt Andrey's words or commitment, and I'm not in a position to criticize someone like him, who has done a lot for the community, just saying that if something goes wrong and the support is dropped, than people who don't / won't get dirty with python code are left in an awkward position. But ofcourse that are the perils of opensource and I must point out that I'm not complaining. :)

Another thing I wanted to say in regart with Yafaray vs others is that I like it's speed of working. I do a lot of preview renders, every time I change something I re-render. And for such a workflow Yafaray is better (faster) than any else renderer I tried.
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:48 pm

heretic wrote:
subcomandante wrote:My question at this point is, choice between V-Ray and YafaRay is only a question of skills or YafaRay lacks more flexibility? What do you think about its usage against V-Ray?


Tell me, after you saw this: http://www.vray.com/vray_for_3ds_max/gallery/third_seventh.shtml


I'm not sure how relevant that is. It is a great film, though rather dull, but most of the apparent quality is added in post production. You could, in theory, skillfully post produce Yafaray output. Check out the short compositing breakdown on Vimeo, the straight renders, while good, are not as impressive:-
http://vimeo.com/8200251

@ _Mo_ : Point taken :D
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm

heretic wrote:
subcomandante wrote:My question at this point is, choice between V-Ray and YafaRay is only a question of skills or YafaRay lacks more flexibility? What do you think about its usage against V-Ray?


Tell me, after you saw this: http://www.vray.com/vray_for_3ds_max/gallery/third_seventh.shtml


great renders but that's not Vray... that's plain vray render with a lot (I mean a looot) of professional post production http://vimeo.com/8200251 ... you can do the same with yafaray. It's all about skills... :D
Last edited by condar on Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:22 pm

condar wrote:
heretic wrote:
subcomandante wrote:My question at this point is, choice between V-Ray and YafaRay is only a question of skills or YafaRay lacks more flexibility? What do you think about its usage against V-Ray?


Tell me, after you saw this: http://www.vray.com/vray_for_3ds_max/gallery/third_seventh.shtml


great renders but that's not Vray... that's plain vray render with a lot (I mean a looot) of professional post production http://vimeo.com/8200251... you can do the same with yafaray. It's all about skills... :D


No you cant:

a. volumetrics, look at the smoke eg from the books in the end - compared to yafaray, V-RAY excels in volumetrics
b. SSS eg in the beginning
c. the ring shape DOF in the scene with the round window - I doubt you can even deliver a good basic ring shape DOF for postpro to deliver such result
d. instancing - here and with other stuff render time of yafaray can and probably willb ecome an issue. Doubt it? Ok, 13 Min vid = 780 seconds = 15.600 - 19.500 frames. Lets assume only 10K needed to be rendered, others are just moves on one still or focus/defocus,... Still, try to calc a realistic render time with yafaray for this amount of frames with all features enabled aka lightning, volumetric, particles,... and then add the amount of test renders for some scenes.
e. workflow - coupled with d., yafaray doesnt offer the workflow to work efficiently on such a project.
f. coupled with d: render times
g. align HDRI lightning image with Hi-Res background image (yafaray doesnt even really offer to do that - its try and error - if only god would give us a sIBL integration for yafaray....)
h. animation and animation workflow - we got some issues there too - mark me you can get around most with some tricks - still... most tricks kill render times as well as the workflow
i. materials - V-Ray material library is awesome and if you have a close look at it, we are not able to create all materials similar in affordable time. Dont think so? Brwose those: http://www.vray-materials.de/highlights.php esspecially the lack of some procedural features kills us (colorband, brightness/cotnrast/...)
j. ....

bottom line: you *could* eradicate almsot any true yafaray problems with postpro, but not in a simialr timeframe not a single person in one year. You simply cant.

Am still more keen to use yafaray and see it improve, but... honestly, right now comparing V-RAY and yafaray is the difference between a duck and a swan.

PS: even if you only agree to the V-Ray workflow advantage in the end. yafaray doesnt allow you to do the same in the same timeframe.
Last edited by heretic on Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:24 pm

Guys, after saw Third and Seventh and this Vray images I can say only one.... This was most more post pro , Photohop and After Effects like Vray...It s funny, when is this stuff promo for Vray...or...not funny, its FAIL...and stupid trap for usually potential customer...

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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:52 pm

heretic wrote:No you cant:

a. volumetrics, look at the smoke eg from the books in the end - compared to yafaray, V-RAY excels in volumetrics
b. SSS eg in the beginning
c. the ring shape DOF in the scene with the round window - I doubt you can even deliver a good basic ring shape DOF for postpro to deliver such result
d. instancing - here and with other stuff render time of yafaray can and probably willb ecome an issue. Doubt it? Ok, 13 Min vid = 780 seconds = 15.600 - 19.500 frames. Lets assume only 10K needed to be rendered, others are just moves on one still or focus/defocus,... Still, try to calc a realistic render time with yafaray for this amount of frames with all features enabled aka lightning, volumetric, particles,... and then add the amount of test renders for some scenes.
e. workflow - coupled with d., yafaray doesnt offer the workflow to work efficiently on such a project.
f. coupled with d: render times
g. align HDRI lightning image with Hi-Res background image (yafaray doesnt even really offer to do that - its try and error - if only god would give us a sIBL integration for yafaray....)
h. animation and animation workflow - we got some issues there too - mark me you can get around most with some tricks - still... most tricks kill render times as well as the workflow
i. materials - V-Ray material library is awesome and if you have a close look at it, we are not able to create all materials similar in affordable time. Dont think so? Brwose those: http://www.vray-materials.de/highlights.php esspecially the lack of some procedural features kills us (colorband, brightness/cotnrast/...)
j. ....

bottom line: you *could* eradicate almsot any true yafaray problems with postpro, but not in a simialr timeframe not a single person in one year. You simply cant.

Am still more keen to use yafaray and see it improve, but... honestly, right now comparing V-RAY and yafaray is the difference between a duck and a swan.


sorry... no. :D reading an interview to Alex Roman: the video was made with several other softwares like After effects, Pflow, and FumeFX working on a Intel QX6850 and an i7 machine.
About the DOF... this took me 25 minutes with Yafaray and Blender on an old P4 and you can choose whatever bookeh effect you want

http://static.yafaray.org/condar/DOF.avi.zip
Last edited by condar on Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:52 pm

I start lights and space of this model tested...first shot , light and blur postpro GIMP
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Re: Architecture and Yafaray

Post Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:09 pm

condar wrote:sorry... no. :D reading an interview to Alex Roman: the video was made with several other softwares like After effects, Pflow, and FumeFX working on a Intel QX6850 and an i7 machine.
About the DOF... this took me 25 minutes with Yafaray and Blender on an old P4 and you can choose whatever bookeh effect you want

http://static.yafaray.org/condar/DOF.avi.zip


Read it too - the only mistake where am unsure in my statement is the DOF statement sicne he apparently used DOFPro for it also in postpro.


PS/EDIT: I wanna see how you can have a decent smooth workflow even with all those postpro tools by using yafaray. On anythign else, just dont neatpick one statement by me alone but have a look at all.
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