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Test lighting

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Re: Test lighting

Post Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:27 pm

Alain wrote:I did a little test with Cycles (Postproductions with the Blender Compositor).
I know it's still noisy (1000 Samples, GPU, 13 min. Rendertime on a Quadro 5000).

Wow, 13 mins on 350 cores and still not clean? So how long does it take on cpu? Surely it is less than 20 hours ?
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Re: Test lighting

Post Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:33 pm

8 mins. on my GeForce GTX 480 :-)

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Re: Test lighting

Post Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:02 pm

Alain wrote:8 mins. on my GeForce GTX 480

That is great news for you, but for the people who don't have upmarket GPUs to play with - are they looking at render times of ~ 10 - 20 hours per frame using Cycles?
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Re: Test lighting

Post Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:38 am

stoneage wrote:
Alain wrote:8 mins. on my GeForce GTX 480

That is great news for you, but for the people who don't have upmarket GPUs to play with - are they looking at render times of ~ 10 - 20 hours per frame using Cycles?


I think you have to have a pretty crappy computer to get 10-20 hours/frame and if it's that bad i think you'll get insane render times with Yafaray as well.

I'm on an old computer from 2006 (2x2 core 2,66 Xeon) and i get quite long render times what ever renderer i use.
I love Yafaray but get frustrated working in blind, i change settings and have to re render to see the changes.
Since i don't have a cuda card i can't use Cycles on GPU either, but i can see all changes in real time which is a real time saver.
All scenes are different ant takes very different amount of time to render and get nice and clean.

But for this scene i was surprised how much time i had to to little tweaks and render tests to get a nice result with Yafaray and it ended up between 80-130 min to get it clean and noise free with PM.
So i tested it with Cycles for fun and got a clean render on my old CPU after 70-90 min.
I confess i am quite new to yafa but spent two days testing this scene over and over to tweak everything and rebuilt all the weird object that behaved strange and let light in behind the painting and in the book shelves.

These images should not be compared to each other since i changed everything between the scenes, the Yafa version use a blurred city background which i forgot to do for the Cyles version but both is straight out of Blender, only post work is the node editor.
Nice to have a AO and shadow pass node in Cycles these days.
This was just a test of what i could squeeze out of my old comp and try to get clean Yafa renders at minimum of time.

Thanks for sharing a cool scene and all the great tips shared in this thread.

Cheers

Here's the Yafaray 130 min
Yafa-130min.png


Here's the Cycles version at 90 min (nice reflections in the window)
Cycles-90min.png
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Re: Test lighting

Post Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:40 am

Alain wrote:8 mins. on my GeForce GTX 480 :-)

Kind regards
Alain


7 min with my Asus GTX 580 but noisy as hell after 1000 samples per pixel ;)

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Re: Test lighting

Post Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:12 am

But for this scene i was surprised how much time i had to to little tweaks and render tests to get a nice result with Yafaray and it ended up between 80-130 min to get it clean and noise free with PM.
So i tested it with Cycles for fun and got a clean render on my old CPU after 70-90 min.

Thank you, that is useful information.
The poor estimate is based on Alain's quote of 13 mins using 350 render cores to make a noisy image. Since no one was posting CPU render times, it was impossible to know whether this is scalable per render core.

The times for 1000 samples seem unrealistic since the render is not finished. I'm sure someone could make a noisy image with Luxrender or iRay in 5 minutes, but what would be the point? It really doesn't give any useful information.

Maybe a more useful comparison would be to include how many samples are required to produce a clean render.
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Re: Test lighting

Post Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:31 am

stoneage wrote:
...
Maybe a more useful comparison would be to include how many samples are required to produce a clean render.


I think the more close comparison could be

Render Samples (Cycles) vs Path Samples*(Total Samples)(Yafaray)

with Total AA samples = (AA samples + Aditional Samples * (Passes - 1))

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Re: Test lighting

Post Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:53 am

condar wrote:I think the more close comparison could be

Render Samples (Cycles) vs Path Samples*(Total Samples)(Yafaray)

with Total AA samples = (AA samples + Aditional Samples * (Passes - 1))

Yes. 8)
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Re: Test lighting

Post Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:59 am

stoneage wrote:
The times for 1000 samples seem unrealistic since the render is not finished. I'm sure someone could make a noisy image with Luxrender or iRay in 5 minutes, but what would be the point? It really doesn't give any useful information.


I totally agree.

Jakerlund wrote:
I love Yafaray but get frustrated working in blind, i change settings and have to re render to see the changes.
Since i don't have a cuda card i can't use Cycles on GPU either, but i can see all changes in real time which is a real time saver.


Not very precise. Cycles renders the image again like any other render engine.
If it is more confortable to see pixels instead of render buckets thats another question...
You can change tile size in yafaray if you want or select a region.
The so called Realtime engines are more a marketing argument than a real feature. For instance, Vray rt does not provide finished results. But some find usefull to have a draft...
But if you want a draft why not a clay render of your light or decrease samples just to test the scene?
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Re: Test lighting

Post Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:35 pm

Jakerlund wrote:
stoneage wrote:I love Yafaray but get frustrated working in blind, i change settings and have to re render to see the changes.
Since i don't have a cuda card i can't use Cycles on GPU either, but i can see all changes in real time which is a real time saver.
All scenes are different ant takes very different amount of time to render and get nice and clean.

But for this scene i was surprised how much time i had to to little tweaks and render tests to get a nice result with Yafaray and it ended up between 80-130 min to get it clean and noise free with PM.
So i tested it with Cycles for fun and got a clean render on my old CPU after 70-90 min.
I confess i am quite new to yafa but spent two days testing this scene over and over to tweak everything and rebuilt all the weird object that behaved strange and let light in behind the painting and in the book shelves.


yes you need to tweak a lot to render with PM+FG when you start but after 2 or 3 projects all that is a learned process and you shouldn't need to expend lot of time re doing something you know from previous works... that's what people call it Workflow ;) and I hope all "tricks" shared in this thread will help people to improve their own workflow. So for me that's not a valid argument.

Something strange in your render times is that path tracer is NOT a good choice for interior render (yafaray or cycles) and by concept, path tracing can not get clean results faster than PM+FG in scenes like this (interiors with distant source lights).... so if you get longer render times with PM+FG then there is something wrong with the render settings.
If you try to put yafaray and cycles side by side in CPU rendering, you need to consider that path tracing in yafaray now is faster than previous versions (it needs less samples than previous versions to get clean results.... and less samples than Cycles) due some changes in the code, shaders are not really the same in both engines AND Adaptive Sampling is a PLUS that Cycles does not have.
I really like Cycles with the GPU and all the nodes integration workflow but Yafaray is still my main choice to work with in Archviz projects because PM+FG or SPPM are more flexible and faster than other options...... And I hope IrrCache will be too an option soon (message for devs ;) )

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

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condar
 
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Re: Test lighting

Post Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:02 pm

@condar

could you please post a screenshot of the settings you use in yafaray ?
I dont get a good result with it.

Here are my settings:
settings.jpg


Kind regards
Alain
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Re: Test lighting

Post Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:29 pm

Just a comparison (both tests on the same workstation):

comparison.jpg


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Alain
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Re: Test lighting

Post Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:55 pm

Alain, I find it quite peculiar that you keep on publicizing cycles on yafaray forum without any scientific criteria. :wink:
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Re: Test lighting

Post Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:54 pm

Alain wrote:could you please post a screenshot of the settings you use in yafaray ?
I dont get a good result with it.

Alain, post your photon map along with the render settings, and read the documentation:-
http://www.yafaray.org/documentation/userguide

In my opinion you are just trolling here. You are on my ignore list.
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stoneage
 
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Re: Test lighting

Post Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:17 pm

Alain wrote:@condar

could you please post a screenshot of the settings you use in yafaray ?
I dont get a good result with it.

Here are my settings:
The attachment settings.jpg is no longer available


Kind regards
Alain

First of all, to anyone trying to compare Yafaray and Cycles.... DO NOT use the same blend file for setting both engines. For some reason (still unknown for me) after settings Cycles materials, many settings of Yafaray get screwed up, some materials just desapair or it's not possibel to edit yafaray settings with most of all parameters removed from the exporter, etc.... AND sometimes final render is not wrong but TERRIBLE wrong...

Now my settings
Attachments
PM_settings.png

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