View topic - Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post here questions about using YafaRay materials, texturing and procedural models.

Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:57 am

first of all thank you very much for your reply.
now i am at work and will not be able to do some tries till this evening.

your photon map looks very similar to mine prviously posted, therefore i am still wondering how to "read" it.

i also notice that your screenshot of the settings contains far more options than the panel i have in my export script! i don't have the caustic raidus for example... and the number of caustic photons..
and option names are slightly different!
i now notice also that parameters are far different and higher than previous...

ok, i'll give it a try and then revert back.
let me ask one last thing: more simply, may the white noise be generated by too low area light samples? (7 atm)

BB
lyllo
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:13 pm

The Photon Map should look smooth and blurry. I cannot claim much expertise there and can only refer you to the documentation already mentioned.

The settings are different because I use the experimental branch.

It is possible that the noise is caused by low lighting samples.
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stoneage
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:06 pm

so here i am.
render:
Final_Render.jpg


settings:
Schermata 2010-04-19 a 21.51.55.png

+ area light samples: 48.

but it remains lot of noise in the upper corner of the image.

now, i have finally found the guide regarding the photon map.

here it is mine:
PM.jpg


as you can see, according to the guide, the areas are too "chopped", with sharp separation among different area colors.
if i understood well the guides, my settings are therefore completely wrong.
i should have used far higher diff.radius and higher search params...
isn't it?
but using mitchell filter produced some black points in the render, some of them remained in the upepr corner, and a lot of withe points. (traces and evidences still in the same position)

what am i missing?

ty.
lyllo
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:06 pm

new render with new settings:
Image

which probably are a bit more correct than the older ones, according to the guides and relative photon map, which looks a bit more similar to the ones on the guide...
Image

and finally, the render...
which is not so different from the older.
and still keeps older withe pointed errors :(
Image
lyllo
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:39 pm

Don't worry, just keep working on it, keep reading the documentation and you will get it in time. It is something you learn with experience. I stress again, I am no expert....
The Diff. Radius, number of photons and Search values are interrelated.

As I understand it it works like this:-
The smaller the Diff Radius, the more accurate the Photon Map. (Good thing)

The smaller the Diff. Radius, the more likely there will be gaps between photon hits. (Bad thing)

A higher Search value helps to blend the photon hits together. (Good thing)

The more photons you use the more likely they are to overlap. (Good thing)

The more photons you use the longer the render time. (Bad thing)

The rest is achieving a balance between speed and quality (...and RAM usage).
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stoneage
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:10 am

Thanks to this render i am learing a lot about photon mapping.
I am really happy. And lucky i have found yafa users which had the patience to' assist me :)
now i still have to' understand why materials Are not loaded properly.
Will try to' do a final render with last settings and then work on each obecjt of the scene. :)
lyllo
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:32 am

here it is the "final render".
(reduced diff radius to 0.5, increased search to 170, caustics 100, photons 1M, render time 62 minutes)

Image

finally i could manage the "material gate".
and solved the problem with the noise on the corner simply enclosing the area light in a spot with thickness.
now you should see why the light was set that way :)

the book covers are not too realistic, any suggestion?
i created a specific material for the "pages" which now is simply displayed in white, but in my (poor) mind i created a procedural with wood mapped on X axis and Nor, in order to simulate the pages.. but it is not displayed... what does it could depend to?

i would like to improve the appearence of the bottles over the bookshelf, as now i do not like too much...
any suggestion will be much appreciated.

the overall lightning is quite similar to the one i had in mind, but i find it a bit too dark the same (night set).
do you think could it be better to
1) simply raise the light power
2) add a ceiling area light to better mix the overall light (i was more oriented in that)
3) simply raise the depth passages?

thank you and thank you very much!
if i arrived at this (even if it may look poor to pro blender artist, and even i am not an aritst) is pretty much for your constant help and support which sustained me! :)
i will offer you a virtual beer :) (once i will render it and you help me in doing it in a way which i may find pleasant ;) )
lyllo
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:58 pm

I'm viewing it away from home, but the light level looks fine on this monitor.

For the book cover you could add a cloud texture to give some colour difference.

For the bottles use a Glass Material, ensure there is sufficient Raydepth for the light to pass through all the layers of glass, model them with an inside and outside wall, and model from a reference image.

For the books pages, I don't know; try adjusting the size and orientation of the texture. Remember it will likely display differently in Blender.

You could reduce the texture size for the chair, it looks too large.
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stoneage
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:55 pm

lyllo wrote:here it is the "final render".
(reduced diff radius to 0.5, increased search to 170, caustics 100, photons 1M, render time 62 minutes)

Image

the book covers are not too realistic, any suggestion?


For leather cover some voronoi or musgrave procedural.

lyllo wrote:i created a specific material for the "pages" which now is simply displayed in white, but in my (poor) mind i created a procedural with wood mapped on X axis and Nor, in order to simulate the pages.. but it is not displayed... what does it could depend to?


Yafaray doesnt support wood procedural. Documentation tells which procedurals are supported. If you want a similar effect, use a marble procedural (supported by yafaray) withotu noise. Alternatively just make a b/w stripe picture in your favorite 2D graphic app and apply as NOR.

lyllo wrote:i would like to improve the appearence of the bottles over the bookshelf, as now i do not like too much...
any suggestion will be much appreciated.


I suggest reading the glass part in the material section under documentation and do it step by step.

lyllo wrote:the overall lightning is quite similar to the one i had in mind, but i find it a bit too dark the same (night set).
do you think could it be better to
1) simply raise the light power
2) add a ceiling area light to better mix the overall light (i was more oriented in that)
3) simply raise the depth passages?


Why not dot it postpro? Save your render as EXR and adjust with qtpfsgui.
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heretic
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:28 pm

heretic wrote:
lyllo wrote:here it is the "final render".
(reduced diff radius to 0.5, increased search to 170, caustics 100, photons 1M, render time 62 minutes)

Image

the book covers are not too realistic, any suggestion?


For leather cover some voronoi or musgrave procedural.

lyllo wrote:i created a specific material for the "pages" which now is simply displayed in white, but in my (poor) mind i created a procedural with wood mapped on X axis and Nor, in order to simulate the pages.. but it is not displayed... what does it could depend to?


Yafaray doesnt support wood procedural. Documentation tells which procedurals are supported. If you want a similar effect, use a marble procedural (supported by yafaray) withotu noise. Alternatively just make a b/w stripe picture in your favorite 2D graphic app and apply as NOR.

lyllo wrote:i would like to improve the appearence of the bottles over the bookshelf, as now i do not like too much...
any suggestion will be much appreciated.


I suggest reading the glass part in the material section under documentation and do it step by step.

lyllo wrote:the overall lightning is quite similar to the one i had in mind, but i find it a bit too dark the same (night set).
do you think could it be better to
1) simply raise the light power
2) add a ceiling area light to better mix the overall light (i was more oriented in that)
3) simply raise the depth passages?


Why not dot it postpro? Save your render as EXR and adjust with qtpfsgui.



thank you for your reply.
I am doing some minor modification to the "final" render.
learned a lot while doing it.

two aspects bore thanks to you now: qtpfsgui and the post-processing.
i have discovered several hints which may reveal fundamental to obtain an at least "acceptable" result.
i have to understand how that program works.
in the meantime is there any good tutorial or guide you can link to me to start learning some good postpro?
preferably in photoshop.

thank you.
lyllo
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:59 pm

Upfront - regarding acceptable with yafaray: your scene is complex in a nice way. With some work on materials and lightning you can do a very good render. (remark: sorry for beign blunt, but your wodden floor in your scene sucks too ;) )

  1. for qtpfsgui: Samo linked it today in another thread - linky
  2. a startoff to think with examples (was my first and still like his style): http://www.etereaestudios.com/training_img/solitario/solitario_en_01.htm
  3. one of my ps favs: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/12/07/50-excellent-digital-photography-photoshop-tutorials/
  4. another of smashing: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/10/14/30-beautiful-vintageretro-photoshop-tutorials/
  5. if you can afford photoshop you might want to have a look at DOFPRO - awesome tool to add nearly perfect DOF, lens and chromatical aberration,... plain cool

Apart from postpro: if you got Photoshop, google the NVIDIA normal map plugin for PS - must have.

Have fun :D
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heretic
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:04 am

PPS: in qtpfsgui Reinhard05 is a cool start, no need to care on the other ones when you begin.
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heretic
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:13 am

... and if you don't want to use Photoshop you can do the same installing GIMP and some plugins/filters packages ...

1. GIMP fx foundry : http://gimpfx-foundry.sourceforge.net/
2. Gimp Paint Studio (the last release is 1.4) : http://code.google.com/p/gps-gimp-paint-studio/
3. GIMP Gmic: http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml
4. Resynthesizer and Liquid rescale for GIMP: http://liquidrescale.wikidot.com/
5. Normal Map filter for GIMP: http://code.google.com/p/gimp-normalmap/

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

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condar
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Sun May 02, 2010 9:32 am

wow, thank you guys!
unfortunately i did not receive any communication about your replies :(

i agree the parquet sucks :)

here it is the post-produced render...
camera_POST.jpg


still hve to make out why the texture on the shirt, even if assigned with UV maps appears in that way...
i wanted to be shown with the stripes going across each part of the object almost "straight".. they instead goes in "circle"...

comments comments comments.
this is my first render...
even if technically is no longer the "first" one, as to arrive to this one i have shot several ones :)
lyllo
 
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Re: Improve settings, missing materials & textures, and other

Post Sun May 02, 2010 1:37 pm

lyllo wrote:here it is the post-produced render...


Seems you are doing this to learn yafaray, so here comes critique:
  1. Chair: proportions of the chair dont fit, metal parts to filigran, rolls too small,...
  2. Bottles still suck ;) - no not really, but you can do better
  3. Floor: cgtextures offers decent textures, it feels that texture isnt good at all. Besides the NOR is too strong and NOR points the wrong direction
  4. Books: stripes are too far apart and sometimes point the wrong direction - remove the col channel on the right book on the shelf :D
  5. Colors: appears that on some parts you use "true black" and "true white" - those colors dont exist for real
  6. Outside: behind the window looks dull - there is nothing :(
  7. Wall: the wall has no structure - no tapestry or similar?
  8. books(2): overall book model feels "weird", most dont look like books at all :(
  9. ...

Overall: Id suggest to work more on materials. Eg the shelves might be "quite" even in real but looking closely they arent in most cases (if they are its msotly coated glossy). A faint hint of a small structure with a low NOR would improve those parts a lot, maybe with an Oren-Nayar Shader on low sigma instead....
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heretic
 
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