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Say hi to everyone here...

General questions related with the YafaRay Project, 3D computer graphics and about this site.

Say hi to everyone here...

Post Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:11 pm

Hi,

Firs of all thanks to all the generous and dedicated developers and community involvement that we have yafaray as a free open source software.

A brief introduction of myself :
- Learn to program from junior high school starting with Basica on a 286.
- maybe still good enough with C/C++, haven't really use them extensively except develop RenderMan plugins.
- enough time dealing with Python
- For my past 7 years working with RenderMan or equivalent REYES renderers.
I'm pretty good at writing RenderMan shaders, but consider the math should be the same across any render engine.
- Use maya most of the time, so it will take time for me to adapt blender. :)
- Latest work that I'm proud of, the alien known as "Prawn" in movie "District 9".

I saw in "Get Involved" section that have "professional input", so think this might be a good start before I can do any real contribution to this project. So I'll try to look at bug reports, UI layout, feature requests, design ideas, etc, and give my feedback based on my field experience.

Went through some GPL renderers and finally decide yafaray could be the one that worth put time into.
It's still young enough, not much legacy to carry over if there are any design issues. Have enough population that use it, which is important. Most of all, the goal to become a "prodcution ready" yet physically plausible renderer(well compare to LuxRender/Maxwell that aiming physical accuracy down to spectrum level).

So that's all, and hope that I don't get too busy and have enough free time contribute to this project.
reny
 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Say hi to everyone here...

Post Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:53 pm

hi welcome to our community!

I think you have understood very well the spirit of this community. There is a Maya exporter in the works as a part of the Google Summer of Code program. It would be great if you can help the student of that project with the betatesting work. We look forward to your input to improve YafaRay. Best Regards.

PD: the irc room is also a good place to interact with developers:
irc://irc.freenode.net/#yafaray
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Samo
 
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Re: Say hi to everyone here...

Post Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:01 pm

it would be nice to see renderman included as part of yafaray code

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

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condar
 
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Re: Say hi to everyone here...

Post Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:08 am

condar wrote:it would be nice to see renderman included as part of yafaray code


I research and choose yafaray to avoid RenderMan type of "build for control" design.
The more I work in this industry, the more I realize that simplified ideas and try optimize but not cutting corners will net you happier working hour instead of try to figure out a way to hack and make it looks like they are doing something. ie. Ambient Occlusion, I don't like the idea for faking GI this way, it impose so deeply in people that devs works hard on AO optimization, instead of GI optimization. Guess what, that AO pass doesn't save you time, it makes you work longer. Many things doesn't work with AO, reflection/refraction, direct illumination to concave part(nose close to popping big eyeballs), so you have to hack around it in RenderMan.

In short, incorporate RenderMan's spirit is bad, but some of the features are good, like super good filter, point-based GI, procedural geometry, delayed archive loading, deep shadow maps, etc. But all those controls , attributes, ray visibility sets, are just enough to drive a non-TD give up using it. So the best way to do it is to put more efforts on optimizing raytracing and related issue, make it simple and easy to use, try use math from signal processing field and remove noises and help anti-alias/filter. So you can have super fast setup, similar beauty render time, more time on iteration than debug and hopefully doesn't require heavy comping.

If I'd do RenderMan improvement, I could just choose pixie or other equivalent, right?
reny
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Say hi to everyone here...

Post Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:18 am

thx for saving my time: now I don't have to spend hours trying to understand renderman :D
there are lot of areas in yafaray to improve: support for several render passes to make post production more easy with nodes in Blender, Black dots hunting (really needed :P), Final Gather optimization, bidirectional algorithm, Save/Resume render process, ..... pick one or find another one :D

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

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condar
 
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Re: Say hi to everyone here...

Post Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:54 am

It's not that bad if you are technical enough and tons of free time to understand why are they doing it.
I'm doing it professionally because it's just the best choice to do things now, but then, every leading vfx studio are now trying to improve "iteration" speed, instead of "beauty" speed. Why? Because it costs more with human hours than machine hours. They still render final beauty with RenderMan but now uses other software(either inhouse or licensed) for interactive lighting setup, and all those are just optimized version( for example, Arnold, which doesn't even require GPU) of good raytracer that can do progressive render.

They still need RenderMan for the super quality anti-alias with their filter and flexible shader, of course almost free motion blur, DOF, bokeh effects, and cheap enough displacement, IF, no raytracing is involved.

There was this one joke just happen like a few months ago, there was a shot where a airplane was doing a realtime to slow mo render, they key the tires of the airplane according to real life speed and rotation. Guess what, the tire was doing "magical" things that cause alpha "shrink->grow" during this shot, all because of how renderman was shading things(so much for free motion blur). I tried to explain why to the lighter and comper about alpha under motion blur and stuffs to do to prevent it, mentioned that pixar even does their own "plugin" in order to solve this tire disappearing during making "Cars", they just couldn't stop laughing since who would have think this industrial standard renderer is struggling with such simple things, fast rotating tires. Anyway, applied same old hack and comp fix we got that shot done, and it was just one of them.

So yeah, I'll start from learning how to use yafaray first and try to approah it from user and VFX side of view. And then decides which might be needed most and discuss with other devs. Yafaray doesn't seems to have too much code to manage so far from my side of experience. Our in house pipeline core is also an open source project, that one have probably 10 times more code to manage then yafaray, and this is also the reason of my choice.( if anyone is interested, check here, http://code.google.com/p/cortex-vfx/ )

Thanks for the warm welcome. :)
reny
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Say hi to everyone here...

Post Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:55 am

It will be nice to have a professional to share his experience with the community!

I played a little with Renderman (Aqsis, 3delight), but ultimately abandoned it because it took too much time to get any results that would keep me trying.

Custom shader writing in Renderman is a very cool feature (or should I say the basis of the renderer) and since you mentioned your experience in this field and your willingness to contribute to Yafaray in the developing field, I remembered there was such a proposal for GSOC, to which nobody applied / was not selected: Support for Open Shading Language.

It might be just the thing suitable for your expertise.

Anyway, welcome aboard! :)
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_Mo_
 
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