View topic - Yaf(a)Ray, on the way to release candidates

Yaf(a)Ray, on the way to release candidates

Users-contributed CVS development builds. Post here your questions about compiling the source code.

Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:12 pm

bert_b wrote:Although I do not get your results

Beautiful :). But... hmmm... the reflections don't look anisotropic to me on your image. Are you sure it's on? Anyway, I get those black triangles also with anisotropic off, so I must have done something wrong.

bert_b wrote:I of course only meant the 3 lines checking the normal for near-zero values.

Of course. ;)

I'll try again a clean build of Yaf(a)Ray and report back. Good to know I don't need to recompile Blender. Just for comparison, what Blender revision are you using?

Edit: Recompiled, same problem. But Bert, don't waste too much time on this if it's just a problem on my end.

Edit 2: Looks like it could be a Blender bug. I'm getting the same weirdness when I render with tangent shading on in Blender internal. I also just saw this on Blender's commit log:
Revision 14227
subdivide would give weired results especially when used after proportional edit mode because vertex temp flags wernt zero'd


I'll do an svn update for my Blender (not today though) and see if the problem is fixed.

Thanks again
Sanne
Sanne
 
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Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:12 pm

Sanne wrote:While it may be inconvenient, everybody who is able to read and write should be able to do a compile of Blender and Yaf(a)Ray.


Yes Sanne, except that it requires a dev environment. If you take my personal case as example, I can code (my job)....but I have no dev platform on my computer at home. That's why I am always waiting for builds...

Yaroslav_L seems to work on many different platforms and I am not sure he is ready to install a dev platform on each one...

Anyway, I agree with you about the work the developers do and I would like to thanks all contributors. If I feel I can help on specific tasks (and have time enough), then maybe I will install and build too....
doodle
 
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Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:32 pm

Okay, let's hope that resolves the error. I just updated to r14227 and have (still ;-)) no errors. And yes, anisotropic was checked, since the isotropic reflection is a pretty long reflection towards the camera. Due to the angle, having it anisotropy towards an orthogonal direction to the camera, the reflection gets damped a lot.

But please tell when it's still not resolved after you updated your blender.

Doodle is right with that not everyone has a dev environment, but if those yafray users who do would be willing to package stuff, that would be great. Right now, only a Windows dev would be necessary, since I somewhat lack experience with packing on Windows. Lynx had done a great job with that, but oh well. :cry: It's not as if that was a really big deal. Once set up, it should be not more than starting a script to generate new packages for Yafaray and Blender.

Here is something else: As I understand, the Indigo exporter uses part of the Yafaray export script but not the export code inside Blender. They are doing the complete export with Blender Python means. This is something we could do with Yafaray as well, I think. This way we could get completely rid of the necessity for yafray code inside Blender. But I am not sure yet what other implications that would have. Also it would be a lot of python coding, so if anyone out there has some time at his/her hands, please tell. :-)

Bert
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Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:35 pm

Sanne wrote:.... everybody who is able to read and write should be able to do a compile of Blender and Yaf(a)Ray.

It's a bit work, maybe even some hours on first try, yes, but just think about what enourmous work the developers do for us. ..


All this is right, BUT: I think the succes of the YafAray-Project depends on having many users and testers. And i think the same way as Yaroslav, i spend hours and hours with modelling and testrendering. But coding, patching and compiling is something i don't know nothing about (and don't want to know). And i'm sure, that many 3d-artist think the same way. If they don't find an easy-to-install-Yafa-solution, they won't use it and turn to another renderer, which comes ready to-install!
quibodi
 
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Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:50 pm

bert_b wrote:But please tell when it's still not resolved after you updated your blender.

I'll do that then, Bert, thank you very much.

Regarding completely relying on Python for export, it should be doable, lots of projects do similar. Besides Indigo there would be Luxrender, Kerkythea, Sunflow, to name a few. I'm not very advanced yet, but I might be able to help with that, if you ever want to go that route.

A disadvantage I see in the present state is that Yaf(a)Ray doesn't (seem to?) have an own visual framebuffer to render into, so you kinda would render blind and wouldn't get feedback until the render is done. That would be a biggie for me. Another slight disadvantage would be that a scene file would have to be generated and written, which could take some moments, depending on the scene.

An advantage is to be able to continue working in Blender on your scene when Yaf(a)Ray is rendering externally. It's really nice to be able to do that, as I found when I was testing Luxrender.
Sanne
 
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:03 am

Sanne wrote:I'll do that then, Bert, thank you very much.


Today we (me and _bert) have done some tests and by looking at the coated glossy code, it seems there is some broken stuff in there, mainly for the anisotropic reflection. So for now I would recomend not using it.

Sanne wrote:A disadvantage I see in the present state is that Yaf(a)Ray doesn't (seem to?) have an own visual framebuffer to render into, so you kinda would render blind and wouldn't get feedback until the render is done. That would be a biggie for me.


The yafaray API is quite helpful for creating this kind of visual feedback. Today I started doing such interface using Trolltech's Qt framework as seen below:

Image

As soon as I have a functional version of it (that meaning removing the hardcoded values) I'll put it online.[/url]
Boiko
 
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:41 am

Wow, you guys are great! That looks very promising, Boiko. What Qt version are you using?

And thanks for the update on anisotropic reflection, I'll avoid it for the time being.
Sanne
 
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:55 am

Sanne wrote:Wow, you guys are great! That looks very promising, Boiko. What Qt version are you using?


I'm using Qt4 here. The nice thing is that it is alredy running on Mac and on Linux, now I only need to find a machine with a windows install to verify it works fine.
Boiko
 
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:45 pm

Boiko wrote:I'm using Qt4 here.

That's certainly a good choice due to platform compatibility. I'm still using Kubuntu Dapper, which comes with Ot 4.1.2. Do you think it will be recent enough?

I'm planning to update my system Real Soon Now, but at the moment I'm too much stuck in important work projects and would rather not update right now. But I guess, I can always try to install a more recent Qt version from source if needed.

In any case, I'm really looking forward to your render GUI.
Sanne
 
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:51 pm

Sanne wrote:That's certainly a good choice due to platform compatibility. I'm still using Kubuntu Dapper, which comes with Ot 4.1.2. Do you think it will be recent enough?

Yeah, that's recent enough for sure. I'm not using anything special from Qt, just basic drawing and painting.

If I have time today, I'll try to put a version for you to test, even if it does not save the rendered image yet ;)
Boiko
 
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:33 pm

Thanks for the heads up regarding my Qt version, good to know it should work.
Boiko wrote:If I have time today, I'll try to put a version for you to test

I'll gladly test it when it's ready (but take your time, of course). Btw, this might be worth a thread of it's own then, what do you think? Might attract some more of those (few?) who are willing to compile. :)
Sanne
 
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:37 pm

Sanne wrote:I'll gladly test it when it's ready (but take your time, of course). Btw, this might be worth a thread of it's own then, what do you think? Might attract some more of those (few?) who are willing to compile. :)

Fine with me. As soon as I get something to show, I'll open a new thread for this.
Boiko
 
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Post Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:35 am

Sanne wrote:I'll gladly test it when it's ready (but take your time, of course). Btw, this might be worth a thread of it's own then, what do you think? Might attract some more of those (few?) who are willing to compile. :)

Here it is.

I tried to describe the usage in detail, but I might have forgotten something, so if you find problems, please let me know.
Boiko
 
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:44 pm

bert_b

very nice results of your volume rendering.

I just looked into the VRay exporter using VRay quite nice.

Which brought me back to here to see what you guys are
doing with YAFARAY.



I think everybody would like yafaray be perfectly integrated
into Blender in a way that you can also use Blenders compositor
with it. This in my opinion would be a very powerful tool.

I like Blender very much and I see a lot of power in the compositor
and modeling tools next to animation, however the rendering
of Blender never very much gave me the feeling of having a cutting
edge software or a software which can compete in ALL areas of
rendering. This means from cartoon animation to product rendering.


Indigo and other engines are only connected via the Python Exporter.
Yes this is honestly not the best way because first this does not allow
making use of Blenders full power and secondly also limits the use
of the engine in animation.

Yaf(a)ray seems in terms of material rendering very promessing to me.
On my side of business I need to compete with Max and the render engines
they use there. Those are namely Finalrender, Maxwell, VRay, and also MentalRay. Those are no toys - but mainly industry strength solutions.

However I think that it is not about Max but the engine for rendering.

I think we all would love to have the API already so much finished that every
external engine can be easily included. However as it reads that can still take some time.

In the mean time because as mentioned with Inigo other use the Script Exporter way I think accessing Yaf(a)ray via that way might not be the finale solution but for the meanwhile a working way.

I have to deal with a lot of people which are not skilled with computer or have the time to explore rendering as much as I do. In product design rendering is not a main service and thus maybe takes up 10 percent only.
Thus solutions are being used which are easy to maintain and run.

Using special builds for Yafaray would be in this case a draw back. Using the exporter not at all.

I read that yafaray depends also on that plug in code? how much - i am asking because I do not know what it needs it for. Cannot it all be done through the script?

Would it actually be possible to use the pynode to create a material generator for yafaray and let it output the xml file for rendering?
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cekuhnen
 
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:10 pm

I read that yafaray depends also on that plug in code? how much - i am asking because I do not know what it needs it for. Cannot it all be done through the script?



AFAIK other external engines depends on that plug in code apart from Yaf(a)Ray, so I don't think it will be entirely removed, only the posibity of using YafRay 0.0.9, by removing UI acces.

Besides, all of sudden the Blender Foundation can not act as if there weren't altenatives to Blender Internal, they would take some flak for it, so I expect a salomonic decision that favours equally all open sources alternatives to Blender Internal, using as a platform the yafray plug-in code.

I don't have many hopes that the render API will be finished soon, at least if it depends on the Blender Foundation.
Last edited by Samo on Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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